#which is represented in Quaritch

[phoenixshusband]

If you think Spider saved Quaritch for no reason you’re wrong, like entirely. Spider is 16. Keep that in mind for all of this. 16. Your brain finishes developing in your mid-20’s, Spider is still a teenager.

More below the cut cause I know people hate scrolling for ages through long text posts lol

Spider is a teenager that has grown up never fitting in, physically he’s human, but he’s grown up with the Na’vi and so the way he acts and thinks is that of the Na’vi. Because of this he simply will never fit in, he will always be an outsider no matter what he does. This is a child that is viewed as different and wrong in many ways, those he looks up to look down on him in all possible ways, quite literally treating him as a stray rather than a child. No, Neytiri and Jake have no obligation to raise or treat him like one of the family but as adults they do have an obligation to ensure a child is being raised right and being treated right, all adults have that no matter who they are.

So you take a child that feels like an outsider, doesn’t fit in, is mentally struggling and you have him kidnapped by the RDA and a man who is technically his father, have a guess what happens. Yeah, he gets more fucked up. I don’t know what the fuck that thought extractor machine thing is but it’s looks horrific, if Spider didn’t have epilepsy before I’m willing to bet he does now. And in this time of torture, imprisonment and fear it’s not Jake or anyone else from the camp that come save him, it’s Quaritch. Quaritch saves him, that instantly creates a bond as Quaritch gives him a freedom and safety he wouldn’t get otherwise.

With Quaritch Spider gets freedom, he can test the limits as all children will, he gets to ride on an ikran right at the front as though he was flying it, Spider gets to see even more of Pandora. Not to mention literally no one came for him, the adults (and I mean all of them not just the Jake and Neytiri) abandoned him despite knowing that the RDA is cruel enough to torture a child, they knew what he might be facing and they just left him. This kid must be in mental hell.

And it all crescendos when Neytiri tries to kill him. I do not care what you say Neytiri was justified in killing every single person on that ship brutally, they all deserved it but not Spider. He’s a teenager and innocent, she was not justified in doing that. I’m not here to shit on Neytiri though, she’s an incredibly complex and deep character written beautifully and I adore her, but that doesn’t mean wrongful actions can’t be recognised.

Which perfectly leads us to the moment. Spider is underwater, there isn’t time to think only time to act and Spider, traumatised and scared, does. And he does the stupid move of saving Quaritch. But as I’ve said he had a reason to do it, a motivation, just as Neytiri had one to put a blade to his neck.

Spider saving Quaritch does not represent the failings of his morals and his character but instead represent the failings of those around him, the scientists had an obligation to raise him and at the very least Jake had an obligation to ensure a child wasn’t being damaged mentally as he grew up, both failed in doing this and as a result a teenager was pushed to the point of breaking and he did.

Spider is not a bad kid. Neytiri is not a bad person. Jake is not a bad father. All of these can be true and so can the fact that they each did the wrong thing, and that’s a fact.

All it takes is:

Jake: Hey Norm, Spiders been hanging around the kids a lot more and I’m worried some issues might start developing, mind checking in on him?

Norm: Yeah sure Jake, no problem.

And then he talks to Spider and they can find a way to help him with his issues. That’s it! Easy.

[skylarstark4826]

The further and further they flew from the forest, the more dread bubbled up within Jake’s stomach. This was the wrong choice, he was suddenly so aware of that, this was the wrong choice. What the fuck was he thinking, letting Spider decide something like this? 

That had been the deciding factor on leaving—Spider’s declaration to Jake months ago.

If anything happens, don’t come for me . 

Jake should have fought against it more, should have grabbed the boy by the shoulders and refused his request, but it had come after a raid in which five Na’vi had been killed and a single human had been captured—a former soldier who had stayed behind all those years ago to stay with their scientist wife here on Eywa’eveng. It had been the first time a human had been captured and the possibility set everyone on edge until the dam had broken: the RDA had dumped their body on the edge of the forest and had been given no answers from them. 

Still, despite the soldier’s resolve, the humans had made a vow to the Omatikaya—they would speak nothing and expected no rescue. They would rather die than give up the people, our people Norm had said resolutely at the time. That had been that, but, then, later, Spider had approached Jake. The idea was ridiculous, foolish as anything. He couldn’t just leaveSpider behind. Couldn’t let him be tortured or killed; though Jake was sure the RDA wouldn’t do such a thing to a child. They were cruel, but Spider was a human child. They would have sympathy for him. It would be hard, but Jake was sure he could find a way to save Spider if it ever came to it. 

“Jake, no ,” Spider had practically hissed out, his teeth bared, Na’vi in everything but body as he stared up at Jake. “I will not be the person who causes any Na’vi to be hurt. Promise me, Jake. Please. If anything happens, don’t come for me.”

Jake’s words had come out choked, as though some invisible force had gotten him in a vice grip as he answered, “okay, okay,” just to get the kid to shut up. The possibility of Spider getting caught was—he didn’t want to think it could ever happen. Besides, he couldn’t leave Spider behind. Not when he was like a—

The boy was represented in his songcord, same as Kiri. Same as all of his children.

That meant something. 

Spider meant something. 

But, Jake had agreed. He had said yes, okay, okay,and when the day finally came, that same gripping fear had overtaken him and he had taken the easy way out: he ran. He listened to Spider’s plea to be left behind and banked on the fact that he was just a kid. He was sixteen, only sixteen, just a boy. He was tough too. Jake had seen the kid fall out of trees and roughhouse with his kids plenty of times. He always got back up again. It would be mentally taxing to be taken prisoner, but Spider was human. He was a human. He was a child. He would be treated fairly. 

Jake repeated these words over and over in his mind as his ikran weaved through the air, the creature seeking momentary comfort as it bumped its wings with Neytiri’s ikran. His wife glanced at him, teartracks on her face. They stared at one another for a long moment before Jake reached out his arm, his ikran Bob edging as close as he could to Neytiri. She reached out, their fingers a whisper of a breath away from each other before she was able to cling to his fingers. 

There was nothing for them to say. Neither of them were alright with leaving; Neytiri couldn’t bear to leave the forest that raised her and Jake couldn’t reconcile with the fact that he left a sixteen year old boy in the hands of the RDA. With—whatever that resurrected verison of the man Jake knew as Quaritch was. Fuck. 

Jake closed his eyes, letting himself feel nothing but the buffeting wind and Neytiri’s hand in his, then let go.

The children were acclimating well to their new environment. 

The only one of the children who seemed the most out of place, despite how hard he tried not to, was Neteyam. He attended to his chores and learned with his siblings, but some days Jake would look at his son and see that same sadness in his eyes that Neytiri held. The four of them generally stuck together, but the few hiccups they had were—bad. 

The stress of it all made Jake feel at his worst. 

Tuk would wake him up in the middle of the night, crying, and trying her best to be as quiet as possible. Lo’ak was getting himself into trouble, what with fighting the Olo’eyktan’s son and swimming around with a banished Tulkun. And Kiri—he could see how hurt she was that Spider wasn’t around.

All he wanted was to keep them safe. He had no fucking clue if, out in the middle of the water, Quaritch would catch up with them. The man was a devil. He had no care for people or children. Besides, while it was clear he had orders to find Jake, his vendetta was personal. Jake didn’t know what this avatar version of Quaritch knew, but it had to be enough to have such a visceral reaction to him and Neytiri. He wouldn’t hesitate to hurt one of Jake’s children, to use them against him. He had already tried. 

They had to keep low, keep their heads down, keep the peace.

Jake couldn’t have any more on his conscience. He just needed to keep what was left of his family safe.

It hurt that there was one person missing from them, but Jake had to have faith that Spider was alright. He’s tough , he reminded himself again and again as the days passed, he’s strong. It wasn’t the assurance he hoped it would be. Some days, Jake would sit by himself near the shore and pray to Eywa that She would keep Spider safe. That they would be reunited in some way. He prayed that him leaving the boy behind wasn’t a mistake, that his being ruled by fear hadn’t broken the boy. He would pray and pray until his knees became numb from the weight of his body, the familiar feeling becoming a self-imposed punishment. 

He was a coward.

It was during one of those moments that his youngest daughter found him. His legs were nothing between him and the sand, his eyes closed as his lips moved in quiet prayer to the Great Mother. A small hand on his back startled him and Jake turned to see Tuktirey. She was wearing a new top that her brothers had made for her. Shining shells were woven into the top. When the boys had given it to her, Tuk had grinned and held it up towards the sun to see all the colors that emitted from it. 

With her toothy smile and shining top, Tuk was too bright for Jake to look at while his sorrow took him over. His daughter tilted her head to the side, watching him for a long moment before settling herself in his lap. “It’s okay to be sad, Daddy,” Tuk said quietly as she soothed at his back. Her hand was so small and her words were a repetition, the very same he would tell her whenever he found her crying. A beat passed before Tuk, all big eyes and with a youngness that Jake never wanted to see taken away from her, asked, “Do you miss Spider, too?”

The answer was easy: “Yes,” Jake replied as all of his regret and fear and sadness clung to his heart. “Yes.”

“It’s okay,” Tuktirey quietly assured him. “Eywa will protect him.”

It was said with the certainty of a child who had never lost a sibling. Jake wasn’t insensitive enough to think his daughter had never lost anyone. No, he knew Tuk had lost people. There had been elders who she had trusted and seen as grandparents, animals she had bonded with and loved with her entire sweet little heart, and people like the boy Spikti who had died before he could complete his Iknimaya. His daughter had lost people she had cared about, but never a sibling. That loss was one both Jake and Neytiri knew intimately. And, fuck, was Jake afraid he had damned his children to knowing that loss as well. 

Jake closed his eyes, pictured Spider’s happy grin, and nodded his head. “She will.”

In the end, when Jake saw Spider again, he could not embrace him in the way he had longed to for so many months. The boy, so young yet so responsible and mature in a way that made Jake choke up, helped drag Neteyam up and out of the ocean. Seafoam clung to his skin, the paint on his body was faded and his dreads were matted and—

Jake’s eyes passed over him. His hands clung onto his Neteyam, his boy, his son who had been so out of place, who bore such a heavy weight that Jake himself had pressed onto him, his boy who said the words he hadn’t been able to since they had left High Camp: I want to go home . 

Back on Earth, the ocean had been a desolate thing. It was as polluted as the rest of the world was, not to mention hazardous from chemical dumps that tainted the water and destroyed the ecosystem. Wildlife was sparse. The last living whale—a Minke whale—had been beached when Jake was Spider’s age. It was a miserable looking thing, made even moreso when it exploded across the beach that was its final resting place. In all honesty, Jake had nearly forgotten that whole ordeal: the way the news showed it every half hour and Tommy’s loud rants on this and that and this world is ruined . It wasn’t until he had seen Ro’a, dead-eyed, that he had remembered it.

It had taken days for the wreckage of the battle to be cleaned; before the bodies of the dead could be laid to rest, the Metkayina had worked day and night to rid the water of the Sky People’s pollution. 

Jake sat on the beach, the tide soft against his feet, as he stared out into the vastness of it. His Neteyam was at peace, he reminded himself. His son, his first baby, was with the Great Mother. There was no more pain, no more loss, only infinite warmth. Telling himself this didn’t take away the immense grief that pressed against his heart. Over all else, there was one thought that came back to him: Why hadn’t he hugged him more? 

Movement caused his eye to twitch and, assuming it was Tuk, Jake glanced over his shoulder. Instead of his youngest daughter, it was Spider. The boy wore a pale green tewng, a gift from the kind-hearted daughter of the Olo’eyktan, and fresh blue stripes were painted along his body. Someone had taken the time to help untangle his matted dreads. His hair had been cut to his shoulders and was instead braided. There were beads and shells intwined into his braids. Spider’s eyes grew wide, but before he could open his mouth, Jake held out his hand, palm up, beckoning the boy to join him. 

Spider’s steps were careful and measured. 

Despite himself, Jake felt a smile tug at his lips. “Not used to the sand just yet, huh?”

The boy’s face twisted in distaste. “It’s coarse and gets everywhere .” Jake laughed lightly and Spider chuckled, glancing down at his bare feet before brushing away at the sand that clung to him. The soles of his feet were thick with callouses. Jake had been afraid of how the Metkayina would take to Spider, whose Sky Person features shadowed the fact that he was Omatikaya at heart, however it seemed he had little to worry about. Tsireya was vocally welcoming of Spider; it was a significant difference from the way the young girl would defer to her mother only weeks before. Experiencing such a traumatic death, Jake knew, could do that to a person.

“I’m sorry,” Spider rasped out, raw and rough, “I’m sorry I couldn’t do more, Jake.”

For a moment, Jake didn’t understand. The boy's words felt disconnected from the truth of the world. Since coming back to them, Spider had done so much. He had been part of the effort to clean the ocean. He had helped food preparers in the mornings and quickly learned how to make the Metkayina nets and other items that were needed in their time of crisis. Spider had done so much. There was no reason for the boy to apologize. 

Then, as Jake looked over the boy, so young and small as he sat in the sand, his eyes shining and glancing out to the ocean beyond, Jake realized what Spider meant. Jake shook his head, his breath shallow in his chest as he placed his hand onto Spider’s shoulder. He had lost some weight when they had found each other again, thanks to the less nourishing food of the Sky People, but he had seemed to have gained it back now. When Jake had been able to see straight again, after it all, he had taken one look at the boy and given him as much food as he thought Spider could handle. “There is nothing for you to apologize for Spider. You hear me? Nothing.”

The boy gasped and shook his head. “But—”

“No.” Jake said firmly. He could feel, as though from a distance, as a cold tear trailed down his cheek. “You’re just a boy, Spider. It’s me who has to apologize.”

Spider’s face twisted in confusion, like look familiar as it would be on any other of Jake’s children. The first time Jake had seen that expression had been fifteen years ago, watching as the then-toddler had tried to make sense of the world around him. He thought of how Spider and Neteyam used to cling to each other, babbling in a mix of languages and discovering all of Ewya’eveng together. “Why would you have to apologize?”

Hearts are an easy thing to break. How many times had Jake experienced a pain so profound it broke him? Again and again it happened, a ribboning grief that he was never able to run from. Not even the most beautiful planet in all of space could take his grief away. Here, now, Jake found his already cracked heart form a new fissure as he took in Spider’s innocent expression. How badly had he failed Spider? How could the boy not see it?

“Spider,” Jake muttered carefully as he took the boy's hands into his own. They were so small, about the same size as Tuktirey's. “I’ve failed you.”

“No,” Spider said firmly as he shook his head, trying to speak over Jake as he repeated the word again. “You’ve never failed me. No.”

“I’ve failed you,” Jake said again, hoping to drown out Spider’s words. He needed for Spider to hear this, to understand. “I have, Spider, I have. Listen to me!” The boy hissed at him, but stopped speaking, his chest heaving as he glared up at Jake. There was a spark in him, something so strong it made Jake feel worse than ever. He should have protected Spider, been a better man, a better father. Because that has been what Jake had been hiding from for over a decade. Spider was his son. Not Quaritch’s or anyone from Hell’s Gate. His. But, he’d hidden from that truth when he should have embraced the boy. “You’re just a boy and I’m an adult. I’m someone who should have protected you against all odds, but I ran away. I hid. And I left you behind.”

It was a simple truth, yet Spider shook his head again. 

“I didn’t want you to save me. It was my decision. I didn’t want—I didn’t want anyone to be hurt.” His words were broken, his cheeks glinting with tears. The mask on his face began to fog over. “Fuck.”

Despite himself, Jake chuckled. The kids loved swearing in English, something that Jake knew he shouldn’t allow or encourage, but did anyway. “Yeah, kid, but I still should have fought harder for you. Not just when they took you, but before that. I know—Look.” Jake slowly began to untie his songcord from his tewng, the beads clinking together in a soft chime as he did. 

Along his songcord was a memory for his life, starting from the moment he lost his brother. It should be longer, but, really, nothing before Tommy’s death seemed to have mattered anymore. He pinched a dark blue bead between his fingers, inches away from the lock of Kiri’s hair, the small amount of blood inside shifting from side to side. “This is you, Spider.”

With careful, nearly reverent, fingers, Spider took the songcord into his palm. Another soft sob left his lips as he stared at it, the bead that had been twisted into his songcord, his life, for fourteen years. “I’ve—I’ve seen this my whole life,” he whispered absently as he traced a single finger over the bead. “I’m not—worthy of this.”

“Love, family, it isn’t about being worthy, Spider.” Jake replied firmly as he closed Spider’s hand over the songcord. “Besides, if anyone isn’t worthy of someone, it’s me. All your life I’ve left you behind. Don’t—I did, Spider. But, I’m done with that. I’m done denying who you are. You’re Omatikaya, a Na’vi, just like me. Better than me. It’s been my fear that’s held you back, but I’m done. I already lost one son, I couldn’t bear to lose another without saying this. I’m sorry, Spider. I’m sorry.”

The words lay bare in between them for a long moment. The soft waves and their quiet sniffles were the only noises to be heard. It was too much, so much, an entire world of emotions untouched for so long. Jake hoped it would be enough, that they could come forward from this. His chest hurt with the weight of all that had been said.

Then—

Spider’s words were a rasp as he spoke: “I pulled Quaritch out of the water.”

Processing the words Spider spoke was difficult. All Jake could hear was the ocean, the push and the pull, the quiet sounds of his Neteyam’s cries as the boy repeated I want to go home , the repeated tone of a voicemail message in his ear it’s your brother, jackass, give me a call . Jake pressed his hand to his chest, right above the place where his broken heart sat. He looked out at the sealine, watching the soft heads of ilu pop in and out as they played together. 

“Tell me,” Jake muttered as he watched the creatures, thinking of footage of a dead whale carcass. “What happened. Tell me everything.”

The story was a simple one. Spider spoke in a quiet voice. When he cried, Jake reached out a hand to run it over his braided head. His touch seemed to bolster the boy to continue on. “I don’t know why I did it. I hate him. I hate him so much. I should have let him die.”

Jake smiled tightly and shook his head. The memory of something he long ago wished to bury hooked itself into his mouth, needed to be said. “When I was about a year older than you, my dad called me. He was crying, drunk out of his mind. I hated him. More than anyone or anything, I hated that bastard. He was the reason my mom was dead. The reason I was stuck with nowhere to go. I hated him, but I couldn’t leave him behind. So, he called me, crying, needing me, and I found him and took him home. Bathed him, held him while he threw up all over the goddamn place, hating him. He was so drunk, I thought he could just die. He could choke and die and I would be free. But I watched over him. Cleaned him. Kept him from hurting himself even further. I understand, Spider, hating your father, but feeling indebted to him.”

When he turned to look at the boy, he could see Spider’s surprise at his story. His eyes were shining, his fingers were still gripping Jake’s songcord. Speaking about his past was difficult. It was easier for Jake to leave everything behind him, but some things needed to be said. He wished he said more to Neteyam. 

Jake gave Spider a smile. “Don’t worry, Spider. I told you. You’re just a boy. There’s nothing you need to apologize for.”

[xenomorphee3]

What do you think about Varang, the Ash Clans of Acatar 3? If you can, do you have any predictions on what you think Varang will be like, her relationship with Quaritch - we know for sure from spoilers that they will make some contact as well as if they will mirror a darker side to Jeytiri, and what the culture of the Ash Clans will be like - we just know they’re more hostile than the other clans

Can’t wait for the next chapter!

Hey this a great question and I wish I knew! In fact, my anticipation for the Quaritch dynamic with the Ash People is one of the biggest factors in me writing my story. What's funny is that I was not aware of like leaks and stuff for Avatar 3 or even Varang's name. I only knew based on what Jon Landau shared that there would be "Ash Na'vi," that their elemental symbolism was fire, and that they would represent a "darker" side to Na'vi.

With this information (and being catastrophically down bad for Quaritch lol 😅), in early January I started crafting my own version of the Ash People and created our beloved Zu as a "Varang" stand-in. So in a way my story IS an embellished version of what I think could possibly happen/is at least plausible at a broad theme level (particularly in the earlier chapters). Now for Avatar 3 whether or not the Ash People will have any positive rapport with the RDA is uncertain. However, I think it could be very possible given that it's near certain Quaritch will be working with them, but I imagine he'd keep his loyalty to the RDA for a good bit of time (at least two more movies worth--much longer than I depict in my story).

I also do think the Ash Na'vi in Avatar 3 will potentially exploit Pandora a bit more than what we've seen other Na'vi do. The reason for this is just based on who James Cameron depicts as villains in Avatar. He is very explicit that the bad guy thing in Avatar is exploitation and destruction of nature (and colonization). So I would expect the Ash Na'vi to keep with this theme. And such matches their associated symbolic element of fire-- which burns and was necessary to the industrial revolution. Probably not to an extreme extent, they are still Na'vi, but... it would make sense. This is why I depicted my Ash Na'vi as embracing of human technology and a little more environmentally destructive than other Na'vi. But we'll see!

I have no idea what Quaritch and Varang's dynamic/relationship will be like to be honest, and I think many people (myself included) are making a lot of assumptions that may or may not hold true in the end. But it's just fun speculation! The Quaritch fan in me ships them *very* hard haha as, yes, kind of like this anti-Jeytiri. Na'vi but dark compared to what we have seen. There is an interview Stephen Lang saying:

"Hope doesn't exist without despair. Eden doesn't exist without the serpent. Quaritch is a necessity, he becomes part of the fabric of Pandora, even if it's to test it."

So that vibes with the idea that he's this dark antithesis. In particular, Jake's anti as it seems Cameron has presented him in Way of Water with his uncanny parallels. Regarding a relationship with an "anti-Neytiri" which may be what Varang is, there are set and cast photos of Stephen Lang and Varang's Actress Oona Chaplin looking close and friendly, but eh that could mean SO many things!

Beyond my just liking Quaritch, I personally think it would be super cool and make sense to the story-- I'd love to see Varang help Quaritch come to embrace being a Na'vi and Pandora, but in a dark way, the way Neytiri did for Jake. Because then you also have the unique influence of Spider who will clearly be some helping hand for multiple characters in the films (Socorro means "help" or "aid). Of course, some people don't want this and think it'd be a cheap knock-off of Jake and Neytiri and could make things too messy for Quaritch's as a character given that Spider is already his primary relationship, and I can fully respect that! But James Cameron cooks.

Naturally, I'm just along for James Cameron's Avatar ride. Whatever direction he takes Quaritch (If Quaritch doesn't get a hot bad bitch Ash Na'vi girl in the end or just flat out dies, I still have my story lmao)

I was kind of bummed about the leaks at first because it felt like they took the wind out of my story's sails where it was existing in, at that point, an uncertain Avatar future. Some of the Avatar 3 script leaks even had dialogue that was freakishly close to some I'd written. But ultimately, this kind of worked out so that my stories would just be a reasonable alt-universe from the get-go. Though, I wouldn't be at all surprised if my story has genuine similarities with how some things go down since I think Avatar 2 has done a good job of broadcasting some overt aspects of Avatar 3 (in a good way!) and I worked hard to be keen on them. Many writers have! Anyway, this last paragraph is a tangent.

Sorry for the long answer! Next chapter of Happiness is Simple is up by the way! 💙

[naavispider]

Maybe what if Spider had cystic fibrosis instead of asthma? Would that change anything at all? Maybe Quaritch would have decided to make direct contact sooner?

I really like this idea. I haven't really used it or explored it yet, but it's been in my mind for a while. Spider in canon is severely handicapped compared to the Na'vi characters when it comes to breathing. As someone who has asthma in real life, I think it's a pretty decent stand in for representing this, however most asthmatics are not at the same level of threat/danger as canon!Spider is if/when his mask becomes damaged/dislodged. Cystic fibrosis seems like a still elevated disability that perhaps mirrors Spider's struggle a little more that asthma?

This is not a comparison of which-disease-is-worse or anything like that! Asthma can be life threatening, life limiting and debilitating, as can CF. Ultimately, I'd love to explore an au where Spider has the disease. I'd need to do a whole more research first though! In The Cat's in the Cradle, a few things would probably change.

Quaritch would attempt to get to Spider sooner.

He'd pay for all of Spider's treatment from prison, and would have a say in where and who treats him. (The authorities allow his voice to be heard for this because Spider is so sick).

When Quaritch gets out of jail, he'd probably try and snatch Spider so he could take him somewhere there's a better hospital

He'd be even more determined to get Spider only this time he'd be obsessed with finding him the best medical team, even if that meant moving to Canada or something.

So yeah, maybe Spider is walking home from school one day and the next he's waking up in Vancouver being taken to a facility by Quaritch.

[bl00dh0rs3]

Everybody saying that one in the back of that concept art is Quaritch. Yes, Quaritch, the Main Overarching Antagonist, sequestered to a blurry, blacked out figure in the back of the shot which is lined with tens of Other similar silhouettes on ikran with guns -- while Lyle gets to flail his rocket launcher, clear as a cloudly day with his bald ass head, under the right-hand side wing of Varang's glorious space dragon.

(Quaritch is going to start getting shifty bc Spider influences + will be tempted to compromise or perhaps even defect [out of love for his son, not necessarily the planet or Na'vi], but Lyle is the DIE-hard colonial loyalist exemplified by what his tattoos represent & his history in the drafts of these films as an example of who Jake might have turned into if he hadn't switched sides. Varang is using them to gain access to the RDA's tools and weapons, so if Quaritch backs out at some point, and the only other Recom left to connect her clan and the humans is Lyle...... 😳)

[sayitan]

HEADCANON : pathfinder & first scout .

Neteyam was the first of his siblings and youngest Omaticaya Na'vi to undergo and complete both the Iknimaya and Uniltaron rites of passage to adulthood. In the clans eyes, Neteyam is recognized as a fully matured adult and is expected to present himself as such. He is required to provide for the clan, lead and teach young hunters, and on occasion represent the Omaticaya clan when meeting with their neighbors. As the grandson of the Tsahìk and son of the Olo'eyktan and Toruk Makto, these expectations were far higher than for any others of the clan and Neteyam pushed himself to succeed. There were few tasks and errands that he would turn down, always offering a helping hand to his clan and pushing himself to exceed expectations.

When the RDA returned, Neteyam argued and fought to join the Resistance under his father's leadership and guidance. Despite being recognized an adult and being an expert and skilled hunter, the clan also recognized that he was only 14 years old at the time. Neteyam persisted until his parents were forced to relent and was assigned a role as scout.

Neteyam utilized his skills as a trained hunter to track RDA patrols, scout their installations, outposts, and other minor facilities and would later be assigned the codename Pathfinder. In this role Neteyam was expected to identify entry and exit routes for larger resistance attacks, he was to maintain eyes on the air for incoming reinforcements, and relay escape routes and enemy movements from up high to ground forces.

Over time, Neteyam's role became more involved, taking part in investigation, infiltration, and sabotage missions. However, Neteyam was rarely involved face-to-face with RDA soldiers, picking off soldiers, AMP and Skel Suits from a distance either while in flight with his ikran or from nesting spots high and out of sight. When he went with his parents to rescue his siblings and Spider from Quaritch it was his first time actually being on the ground and in the thick of it.

This is why Neteyam didn't immediately change positions / locations after taking out the Recon soldier that had Neytiri in his sights. Switching positions / locations is basic ground assault training, Neteyam was used to being in flight or "sniping" from a distance, the prior ensured he was always in motion while with the later meant he didn't need to change positions because he was often hidden and out of sight. Despite being recognized as an adult and being a skilled hunter, he's still inexperienced in warfare and was assigned jobs and roles which kept him out of immediate danger.

[nattikay]

alright, I’m aware that I’m making a serious response to a joke post here (at least, I hope it’s a joke post), but I’ve seen this idea thrown around enough times that I feel the need to address it.

No, Jake did not “betray his species for the sake of blue monkey cat girl p****”. He betrayed a greedy megacorporation because he had a genuine change of heart and came to believe that what said corporation was doing was morally wrong. The corporation which was, y'know, literally bombing villages for money.

And yes, the RDA does what it does for profit, not to “save humanity” or whatever else. Selfridge makes that abundantly clear when he tells Grace:

See this? This is why we’re here. Unobtainium. Because this little gray rock sells for 20 million a kilo. That’s the only reason.

Later, Quaritch, Selfridge, and Jake are discussing the unobtainium deposit beneath the Na'vi village, saying that they’re planning to take the unobtainium regardless, but that it would be better for the press if Jake can find a way to negotiate for it rather than to take it by force. When Jake expresses some skepticism about convincing the Omatikaya to leave their home, Selfridge responds:

Look, killing the indigenous looks bad, but there’s one thing that shareholders hate more than bad press, and that’s a bad quarterly statement. So find me a carrot that’s gonna get them to move, otherwise it’s gonna have to be all stick.

The RDA is in this for the money and the money only. They don’t give two craps about saving anyone, nor about who they destroy, as long as they get paid at the end of the day. THAT’S the organization Jake is betraying, not “humanity” as a whole. And given some of the truly horrific things the RDA does, he was completely in the right to turn against them.

As for Jake’s motivation being hurr ba durr imma clap some alien cheeks: no.

When Jake reveals the RDA’s plan to destroy Hometree to the Na'vi and Neytiri feels hurt, he tells her:

Look, at first, it was just orders. But then everything changed. I fell in love. I fell in love with the forest…with the Omatikaya people…and with you.

James Cameron has stated that the wording of this line was very intentional because it represents the progression of Jake’s arc. He becomes awed and fascinated by the forest first. Then he grows to love and respect the Omatikaya people and their culture. And then, last of all, he falls for Neytiri herself. Loving Neytiri was not the root of his motivation, it was merely the icing on the cake.

And once he’s grown to genuinely care for and value Pandora and its inhabitants, of course he’s gonna be horrified and angry about a greedy corporation destroying it for profit. He no longer sees the Na'vi as “fly-bitten savages that live in a tree” like Selfridge does, or “the hostiles” like Quaritch does, he sees them as his friends, as PEOPLE whom he knows and cares for and respects and admires. And the RDA is murdering them, destroying their home and their sacred sites. For money. No flippin’ crap Jake wants to turn against this company. Who in that situation wouldn’t?

In the extended edition of the opening scene, Jake states that “all I’ve ever wanted in my sorry-a** life was a single thing worth fighting for”. Well, he found that thing on Pandora. He found something worth fighting for, something worth defending, something beautiful and special. And by golly he’s gonna fight for it.

Boiling the whole thing down to “haha this freak betrayed his whole species just to bang some hot aliens” is such a massive disservice to his character arc and anyone who genuinely makes that argument was either not paying attention to the movie, or is just seeking to be an edgy contrarian arguing that the protagonists are the “real villains” and the antagonists the “real heroes” (spoiler alert: they very most definitely are not). thank u and good night

[literaturereviewhelp]

The film Avatar was produced in 2009. It is a science fiction film which was written and directed by James Cameron. As of January 19, 2010, Avatar had earned $1.86 billion, making I the highest grossing movie of all time (Kendall 180). Avatar is one movie which changed the rules in film making starting from its plot to the themes portrayed. The plot uses planet Pandora where the star character Jake Sully finds himself. Jakes works for a mega corporation which has decided to visit Pandora in search of a rare precious mineral. In the search for unobtainium, the precious minerals, Jake comes across the natives of this planet, huge organisms with a height of up to twelve feet. The organisms are scary considering they are blue in color. It turns out that getting the precious stones will be a tough duel between Jake’s team and the aliens. The next episode involves the transfer of Jake’s consciousness into the Avatar body. Jake is a former marine who had been confined to walking with a wheelchair after getting injured in battle. This biological robot is developed from human and Na’vi DNA. This is the ultimate plan to make sure that he gets an upper hand in the struggle. Pandora’s atmosphere is toxic with gases which would easily end his life. However, in the acquired form, it becomes easy to navigate the planet and interact with Na’vi people. There are a number of film genres and styles adopted in the film Avatar. The idea of post-colonialism crisis dominate the film with the Na’vi society representing the resourcefully rich countries which are habitable. The presence of the precious minerals shows that region is not exploited as Jakes leaves the over exploited world to seek minerals from Pandora. The analysis will focus on the plot development and how themes relating to real life and matters affecting humans are presented. Main Sci-Fi Features in the Movie The movie incorporates aspects from the past, present and future. The financial run out experienced by VA fits well in the experienced economic recession from 2008 across the world. The idea of colonialism and post-colonialism is well expressed using the rich planet Pandora. However, the planet is not habitable for humans with the toxic atmosphere requiring the incorporation of humanoid DNA in the Avatars together with human DNA. After colonialism, the countries advocating for it wanted to continue siphoning the resources from their rich colonies to their motherland. This is the exact situation when Colonel Quaritch sends Jakes to search for the minerals with the promise that he would have his injured legs operated Read the full article

[nivenus]

I just saw Avatar for the first time since it was in theaters 13 years ago. Some quick thoughts.

1) The CGI (mostly) still holds up. Aside from one sequence near the beginning, I don't think you can really tell this was made more than a decade ago. That's pretty damn impressive since CGI often ages poorly.

2) It's a better film that I gave it credit at the time though it's still quite flawed in some ways (more on that in a bit). But after a decade non stop of Marvel, DC, and Star Wars as the dominant box office brands it stands out a lot more and feels a lot more original.

3) It's hard not to perceive part of the backlash against the film among nerds (which I think the success of Way of Water has shown did not reach into the mainstream) comes from the fact that this film makes the Colonial Marines from Aliens the bad guys. Unequivocally. As someone who thought the Marines were never the most interesting part of Alien or its imitators that doesn't bother me as much.

4) I think another reason people (myself included) backlashed against the movie is that it is overwhelmingly, heart achingly sincere. There is not a sarcastic or self-mocking bone in Avatar's body. Everything it does is done with deliberate, open hearted purpose and frankly a lot of us nerds are uncomfortable with that! But again, after a decade of films aping the wink wink wisecracking of 2012's Avengers, one might argue Avatar's bleeding heart is actually a major plus in its favor.

5) That being said, it's not flawless and one bit of criticism from 2009 remains quite relevant: the film, while unequivocally anti-colonialist, is made with an entirely white lens. The Na'vi are the good guys, yes, but with the exception of Neytiri (and only barely to be honest), they're never the *heroes*. The greatest ass kicking moments, the greatest triumphs and heartbreaking moments belong not to them but to the humans like Jake, Grace, Norm, and Trudy. The Na'vi are sympathetic, but we don't see anything from their point of view: they're accessories to the human characters' emotional journey.

6) That being said, if this was the first movie you saw about colonialism I think you'd be hard pressed to come away from it thinking that was a *good* thing. Cameron is not the least bit subtle about painting Quaritch and RDA as the bad guys nor about drawing comparisons between them and not only historical colonizers but the modern U.S. military (see point 3).

7) One thing I appreciate a lot more now than I did in 2009 is the sheer volume and quality of worldbuilding. It's clear this was a passion project for Cameron and he put every bit of detail he could cram in. It's also a very notable early example of a conlang that isn't either Tolkien or Klingon.

8) Lastly, the movie struck me as faintly religious which is interesting. I don't believe Cameron belongs to any religion but it struck me that Eywa very much represents an idea he would like to believe is true, even if he doesn't actually believe in it.

Anyhow, I might do a more detailed analysis after I watch Way of Water, but for now I'll end by saying Avatar remains a complicated but very well made movie, with a good message muddled somewhat by an exoticizing lens.

[be-the-glenn-to-my-maggie]

I saw you answered an ask about Spider's and I wanted to ask about Quaritch.

You mentioned that you worry Quaritch is going to have a "Snape type" death where he's an asshole the whole time but then he gets himself killed doing the right thing at the very last second so everyone can be like "wow maybe he was a good guy after all" which is honestly what I suspect they will do, but I really hope I'm wrong.

So my questions are: what do you think will actually happen to Quaritch in the sequels? And if you were in charge of the Avatar sequels, what would YOU choose to happen to Quaritch?

Super interesting question, that is a massive fear of mine. It's such a common trope these days and it's such insanely lazy writing, and at this point I think it's boarderline irresponsible. It's always the hot, male, white villain that can die and be redeemed without doing any of the work or suffering any of the consequences of the choices he made. I call it the Darth Vader effect. It's Darth Vader dying at the last minute to save the galaxy instead of, oh, I don't know, going to a war crimes tribunal and seeing all the parents of the children he literally murdered, and maybe facing his daughter whose entire planet he exterminated. Just thoughts.

It's young white fans that are so eager to forget who Quaritch is as a character, and what he's done and represents. People say it's just a movie, well, I'm really tired of that storyline regardless of how harmful it is. Don't you all want better? BUT ANYWAYS, I've been blocked for a year already by most people that disagree with me on this, so I digress.

I think I've given my answer on this before (god knows I can't find any of my posts ever), but I would do this movie the same way but not killed Neteyam. I think you give audiences (and Spider) the whole of next movie to really think Quaritch could change and saving him might've been the right choice. We also get a whole movie more of Neteyam to get to know him and like him even more, and then you have Quaritch kill him. Really like, a deciding moment where he really becomes clear. I would love to have been so mad about him being given a sympathetic arc just for my expectations to be literally played against me. I also think it's a cop out Quaritch isn't the one who killed Neteyam, not that it would stop people as they seem to love child killer Lyle anyway.

As for how I think it will end... I think I've answered this before too, but it's really hard to tell when we're only at movie 2/5. His story has to evolve from there. If I had to guess though, I want to say he struggles to find his place because as a "Na'vi" he doesn't fit in with the humans anymore, and he's in the body of his worst enemies, and it starts to push him to the brink a little. I think that something will happen that means he loses any chance of getting Spider for good, and that'll just drive him even farther into fully crazy spiralling until eventually it's the RDA and just rogue insane stalker Quaritch on the side. I think I'd like to see him devolve slower, we got hints of it closer to his death in the first movie and in the second close to the boat scene. I think he's gotta spiral.

I definitely had a different answer last time I had this question, and that answer is valid as well I'm sure. It just escapes me right now. Hope this is what you were looking for!

[nattikay]

ok, so here’s the Avatar addendum @arcadia-trash

So, I can understand why on a very surface level some people think Avatar falls into the “humans are bad” camp: after all, the main antagonists, the RDA, are a human faction. But I disagree. Avatar is absolutely saying that greed and apathetic overconsumption are harmful, and yes the group that representing those ideas happens to be a group of humans, but I don’t think it’s saying that all humans are inherently Like That, and it certainly isn’t advocating for human extinction. Yes, they force the RDA to leave, but emphasis on RDA, not humanity as a whole. The humans who were willing to respect Pandora were allowed to stay.

Speaking of which, if you actually look at all the named human characters, at least half of them…are actually part of the good guys. Jake, Grace, Norm, Max, Trudy, Spider…all humans who disagree with the RDA’s actions (sometimes right off the bat, sometimes after a character arc) and fight back against it. Frontiers of Pandora even gives us a semi-organized human Resistance of RDA defectors who have become disillusioned with the corporate propaganda and are fighting back.

Even among the actual bad guys there’s some variation. Selfridge, for example, certainly doesn’t respect the Na'vi, but also doesn’t seem to want to actively harm them…buuuuut ultimately prioritizes profit above all else. Quaritch, on the other hand…he’s actively itching for a fight, he sees the Na'vi not merely as an obstacle to the operation like Selfridge does, but as The Enemy. Both are bad, don’t get me wrong, but Quaritch’s villainy is more actively malicious, whereas Selfridge’s is more just…apathetic.

Then there’s kinda gray characters like Ian Garvin, the marine biologist. He does go along with the tulkun hunts (because doing so is the only way the RDA allows him to conduct his research), but he absolutely abhors the practice and turns to alcohol to cope with the guilt.

Avatar isn’t saying “humans are bad”, it’s saying “greed/overconsumption is bad” and use a corrupt faceless megacorporation as the vessel to represent those ideas. Not every human is aligned with the RDA, several of them actively hate the RDA and what it stands for.

I think the reason it sometimes feels like “humans bad, Na'vi good” is that while the human characters are a pretty mixed bag of good guys vs. bad guys, so far we’ve only really met good Na'vi (in the films at least), so there’s an imbalance there.

I do think this is something that will change in the future: we know that movie 3 is supposed to introduce us to a darker side of the Na'vi, and some of the non-film canon has shown us more questionable characters already: the comics give us Ateyo and Artsut, who attempt to assassinate Jake and frame their innocent son for it, and FoP gives us Mokasa, who sold out the Sarentu to the RDA, enabling their genocide.

There’s also the factor of that deleted scene from the first movie where Grace talks about how the Na'vi don’t have a word for “lie” and that they had to learn about the concept from us. Personally I’m very glad this scene was deleted because yeah that would definitely push into the boundaries of “humans bad, Na'vi good”…but, again, deleted scene, so it looks like they changed their minds there. plus while it’s true that the Na'vi language has no single noun or verb that directly translates to “lie” the concept is still extremely easy to express, plus they DO have words for steal, kill, betray, etc

and also the idea that the Na'vi would be incapable of even understanding the concept of deceit until the humans came in is lowkey insulting to their intelligence so um yeah deleted scene is deleted moving on

BUT yeah. Just because we haven’t seen much of the Na'vi being bad (in the movies) yet does not necessarily imply that they’re incapable of it or that they’re Just Better Than Humans the way Sweet Tooth treats the hybrids; in the case of Avatar it’s less a difference between species and more a difference between culture. Na'vi culture (at least, the ones we’ve seen thus far) values balance and honor, whereas RDA culture (which, again, not every human agrees with) values only power and money. There’s no special genetic factor that makes the Na'vi especially virtuous, they simply live in that sort of culture with those sort of beliefs—beliefs that any sapient species is capable of adopting.

Lastly, speaking of Na'vi vs humans, you might say, “but several of the Na'vi hate the ‘sky people’ and want them to go away!! Doesn’t that fall under ‘humans bad’?”

Well, not really. Yes, several of the Na'vi do detest the sky people, but can you really blame them given all the crap the RDA has done?

Like, let’s imagine the situation in reverse. Say a hyperadvanced alien civilization, let’s call them the Glorks, came down to Earth one day because they discovered we had a rare resource that they wanted. The main Glork Hypership shows absolutely no respect for this primitive species—I mean, they haven’t even discovered quantum string hyperflux amirite!—and when they discover a particularly rich deposit of their coveted resource under New York City, they bomb the whole place to the ground.

……yeah, I don’t think anyone would blame humans for hating the Glorks and wanting them to get the crap off our planet and go back to their own!!

Does that mean Glorks as a species are inherently evil? No. Maybe there are good Glorks who were horrified by the Hypership’s actions. But it’s still understandable that most humans want the Glorks to buzz the heck off.

…yeah that’s how the Na'vi generally view the “sky people”, and understandably so.

buuuuuut that doesn’t make this a “humans bad” story because just because many of the Na'vi dislike humans doesn’t mean the narrative presents them as universally uniquely evil. We the audience still see both the good and bad side of the humans and root for the good guys, just like in any other story.

of course, there’s still three more movies on the horizon, so it is certainly possible that Avatar might end up pulling a Sweet Tooth and get more nihilistic with the fate of humanity by the end of the saga. And if it does that, I will again be very disappointed.

But so far at least, I don’t think that’s been the message. A human faction happens to be the villains, but the story is not claiming that greed etc. is unique to nor inherent to humans as a species.

I just finished the last season of Sweet Tooth on Netflix, I gotta vent a little, warning that this post probably won't be everyone's cup of tea but I gotta say it somewhere. [there be spoilers for anyone who may care about that]

so I've been pretty invested in this show since the first season; yeah, some of the acting is pretty corny and some of the effects look a tad clunky (hello awkward Bobby puppet), but I still enjoyed the characters well enough and wanted them to succeed and also, hey, I'm a simple woman, show me cute animal-people and I'm hooked.

But....I've gotta admit that I really didn't care for the ending. Within the last three episodes of the show they pivot from "we've gotta find a cure for this virus to save humanity" to "actually on second thought humans are the REAL disease and their extinction is the cure" which........ewwwwwwww, no dude, keep your cringe nihilism to yourself k thx

And yeah, in the end they do stop the virus so the remaining humans can survive for a while longer, but all babies are still born as hybrids meaning "humanity" is going to die off within the next 80 years or so anyways.

and they try to dress this up as a great mercy, and they say oh, yeah humans have some good in them but it always comes with Bad, unlike the hybrids who got all the Good in humanity but also they're Better because they're part animal so all the Bad will die off with the humans and hybrids will live in peace forever and I'm sorry but I call bullcrap

Animals are not these great bastions of altruism and morality. Animals rape. Animals steal. Animals kill. Animals cannibalize. Animals eat prey alive.

Even the "oh but humans are greedy and want to take everything and upset the balance of nature" spiel. Buddy, contrary to what some environmentalist stories want to tell you, animals do not actually have a concept of "the balance of nature". That's why invasive species are such a big problem. Introduce an invasive predator into a region and several native prey species go extinct. Those predators don't have a concept of "conserving resources", they'll just keep hunting as long as they're hungry.

And it's not a problem unique to predators either. Remember when wolves were hunted to extinction is parts of the US and then the deer populations exploded and ate all the grass and the whole ecosystem kinda fell apart until wolves were re-introduced to the region? The deer didn't give a crap that they were eating all the grass. They weren't even consciously aware of it. They're not capable of conceptualizing abstract ideas like that.

Natural ecosystems have a balance to them because they're intricately designed systems, not because the animals that live in them are actively making Morally Right Choices to preserve them.

One major thing that separates humans from animals is that we have the capacity for morality. We have the ability to comprehend abstract concepts like freedom and conservation and honor and sacrifice etc., and with it the ability to make moral choices. We are capable of great good, and great evil. You cannot have the capacity for one without having the capacity for the other, because good and evil rest on your choices. Even if you go through your whole life doing only "nice" things, if you did those things because you had no other option, no say in the matter, are you really "good"? Good people choose to be so. I love animals and they're super cool and all, and yes some of them are very smart, but they are not really capable of making that choice (no, I don't care how much of an "angel" your dog is). They are amoral, neither morally good nor bad.

And the hybrids? It's clearly shown that they have the same capacity for choice as humans....which in turn means that yes, whether the narrative wants to admit it or not, the hybrids still have the capacity for evil just like the humans did. Giving them some animal ears or special powers doesn't change that.

Not to mention that all but one of the hybrids we've met are children. They haven't even hit puberty yet!! Of course a bunch of innocent kids are gonna look like sweet little angels compared to hardened desperate adults trying to survive an apocalypse holy flip! And just because Gus happens to be a particularly good person who strives to see the best in others does not mean that all other hybrids for the rest of time are gonna be the same! He's not good because he's part deer, he's good because he's Gus! Because he believes in good things and acts on it!

The one adult hybrid we briefly meet isn't a sweet little kid who sees the best in others, he's a grouchy old man who wants human genocide. And while I can totally understand why he as a character feels that way....that's not good dude!!!! That's not any better than the humans who want to kill the hybrids!

You didn't "remove worst of humanity and preserve the best of it" by replacing humans with hybrids. You just gave them a makeover.

Human/animal hybrids as a character concept are totally up my ally, I think they're very cool, but pretending that being part animal makes them inherently morally better than regular humans is just ridiculous imo.

tl;dr I just really hate the nihilistic "humans are uniquely evil, deserve to go extinct as a Punishment, and literally any other sapient species would be better" trope and I'm very disappointed that this show pivoted to that at the last minute.

[niku30]

PARKER SELFRIDGE | HEADCANONS

_____________

• Uses others to make himself look more intimidating than he actually is - because of his smaller frame. Pretty much always surrounded by SecOps soldiers to have a sense of control. His very intense and passive-aggressive attitude definitely makes up for his physique.

• Hates seeing blood. Very prone to feeling dizzy at the sight of anything graphic.

• Very cleanly and probably obsessed with disinfectants to some extent. Doesn’t really like meddling with the marines or the jungle because both are absolutely NOT clean in his opinion.

• Almost always cold. Very cold hands.

• Can’t sit still, his brain is always active and he needs to move or keep himself busy in order to stay calm.

• Actually misses life on Earth to an extent - perhaps the golf courses / tournaments in particular - and the thought of being on a foreign planet intimidates him because he feels like he is on his own, and vulnerable at that. His deep emotional connection to the life he knew on earth is represented by the many trophies and trinkets displayed in his office at hell’s gate.

• Won’t easily admit his insecurities and weaknesses towards others because he feels like he has to keep up the image of being a respectable authority figure, which is hard enough given how different he is from all the SecOps soldiers surrounding him.

• Will talk for hours about corporate topics such as money and statistics and interrupt you constantly. Very engaged and emotionally charged when it comes to important conversations. However he is not really used to talking about topics that do not involve work and direct confrontations about more private topics might startle him a bit.

• Hates being touched whenever tense/stressed. Physical actions without permission leads to sensory overloads for him in most cases.

• Incredibly scared of death/dying, and being on a hostile planet doesn’t help lessen said fears.

• Mostly eats his meals on his own because the sheer idea of sharing canteens with both soldiers as well as scientists who all talk over each other is a nightmare for him.

• Very passionate cook, incredibly interested in good cuisine.

• Likes when others bring up his career journey and corporate status. It boosts his ego a lot and he enjoys bringing up his hierarchical position a lot in conversations in a desperate attempt to maintain respect and dominance.

• Deep down he may experience remorse for the actions he decided to support thanks to the pressure Quaritch applied on him before the battle of home-tree but he’ll probably never take the opportunity to express that remorse openly. He will most likely always put the RDA’s interests over his internal conflicts because he feels like he has more control over the administration than over his own mind.

• Quaritch knows exactly what makes him tick - and he uses that knowledge to manipulate a conflicted and stressed out Parker into making the “right decisions”.

• Very known and popular in his work environment but rather lonely and reserved when it comes to his private life. Doesn’t have many real friends. He has a heavily corporate mindset, which he applies to any situation or conversation, which makes him a very difficult personality to remain patient with.

• Easily becomes very teary-eyed and startled whenever he is put into a situation that makes him feel vulnerable, which is a big contrast to his otherwise direct and aggressive nature. This applies to both positive and negative emotions.

[birdy-bird27]

Just finished seeing avatar way of water and I both enjoy it but also have some gripes. For context I grew up OBSESSED with the first avatar Movie to a intense amount. This has been my most hyped movie growing up. The visuals are amazing, I was enamored the whole time you would forget it’s CGI. Even better I saw it in 3D and 4D which made it even more immersive. I really enjoyed it even though there was some clear sequel bait in it but whatever. But overall the experience was great and I enjoyed the movie. However there was some parts that really made no sense to me that I can’t shake spoilers below

I

hate how like Jake made his family move from their home?!? Like that’s neytiri whole culture and life. It’s clearly an important part to her and her family but they run away to the metkayina clan. Totally different way of life. Let’s be honest the metkayina clan is supposed to represent Polynesian culture just like how the first movie is Native American culture. like I’m Alaskan native, it’s like I packed up and left behind my family and culture to go live in Hawaii and decided yup I’m Hawaiian now like what?!?! It was also very jarring how quickly they settled in to the clan??? It felt a bit rushed to me. Also the metkayina people are literally built for the water unlike the Omaticaya (Jakes family) and they just magically blend in? it took like one montage for the kids to fit in. It felt so weird to me. How at the end how they say they are sea people now? Why did they bury Neteyam in the ocean? His last words were “I want to go home” he should have a proper burial back with the omaticaya clan. Honestly it just felt like James Cameron really wanted the rest of the series set in the ocean since he’s a huge ocean freak and needed a reason to keep it in that setting.

Also fuck spider he was annoying as shit I can’t believe he saved quaritch that dumb idiot. He saw him ruined so many villages of the Navi, fucking kidnapped and assaulted his friends and more yet still saved him which clearly means quaritch is coming back in a future movie to my dismay. Spider just is a weird inclusion I didn’t like him they didn’t develop him at all and was just there to be there when they needed a way to save the main cast.

[naavispider]

Oh god oh NOOO as soon as you said “emotional reunion scene with Quaritch my mind went to all kinds of places 😭 I hope we get that in the next movie fr 🙏 what would your interpretation of their reunion scene look like btw?

I've been trying to think about how they're going to do this for a while now. It starts with theorising what would happen to Quaritch when he returns to the RDA. In my mind, he should be court-marshalled, but I don't think they'd do that for Plot ™️ reasons. I imagine that since he represents such a huge investment the higher ups don't want to waste that, so he'd probably have to undergo some sort of rehabilitation, which I don't think would be pleasant for him. Then, I think they'd sent him into the Ash Clan potentially on purpose? To maybe try and create some sort of allyship? Since Quaritch is potentially dressing like a member of the clan, he may try and go in undercover and gain their help to take down the Metkayina/Jake Sully (this is based on the assumption that the Ash People are antagonists)? If this is the case, I think the first time Quaritch and Spider see each other again could be when Spider and Lo'ak (and anybody else) are captured by the Ash People.

I love the emotional stakes this raises, because they might both have to pretend to not know each other. Maybe Spider wants to out Quaritch by telling them he's a Sky Person, but he knows they would probably kill him? Either way, the other Sullys are gonna be shocked to see Quaritch is still alive and I don't think Quaritch will be the one to tell them that Spider saved him.

As much as I wish they'd get a full on, private reunion, I think it's more likely to be in a hostage situation, or other combative moment that leaves little time for talking - just some dramatic looks as the camera focuses on a close up of each of their faces 💀 The time for talking will come when either one of them is captured by the other side.

That is my prediction for A3, but if it were up to me, Quaritch would fly back to Awa'atlu before the RDA could reassemble itself to strike back against the Metkayina, essentially deserting the organisation and committing treason. He'd return to the village when he heard the RDA was going to mobilise Sec Ops to advance and destroy the whole village, which would obviously include Spider.

So he flies back to warn the people (obviously though his main mission is to get Spider back). They immediately capture him, paralleling when Jake returns to Hometree to warn the Omatikaya about the assault in A1. Quaritch is dragged in, bound, and Spider runs over with Kiri, Tuk and Lo'ak to see what all the commotion is about. As he realises it's Quaritch, we have a dramatic shot of both of them meeting eyes, before Spider starts to panic about what he's going to say.

None of the adults understand how he is alive, and Quaritch isn't going to rat Spider out, so he doesn't tell them how, just insists that the RDA will be here soon. Jake is confused AF why Quaritch even cares, until he catches the recom staring at Spider. Quaritch and Spider quickly try to hide it, but Jake has twigged it.

Maybe after the adults have interrogated Quaritch, Spider isn't allowed to see him. That would be for extra added angst, and would make for an even more complicated dynamic between Jake and Spider. Neytiri obvs has to be held back from murdering him on sight. Idk what happens from then on 😁😁😁😁😁😁😁

I think they're more likely to have a heart to heart at least halfway/two thirds through the movie, like the tension will build all the way through until they finally get their moment to catch up, and that's the scene Jack Champion was talking about.

It's so stupid to even try to guess at this stage but hey! I'm trying! I will be proven a fool and a clown, and that's okay 😌

[be-the-glenn-to-my-maggie]

NO I HADN'T SEEN THE NEYTIRI ONE.

Oh the LORE implications, this is a win for the Spider and Neytiri warriors. You did mention the hair being black maybe meaning he gets an Avatar, chronologically on both their songcords it's before Lo'ak's birth.

I'M ASSUMING Tuk jsut isn't pointed out. Also, my assumption for this is it's another piece of evidence that originally Spider was going to be a full part of the family from the get go and some of their designs and older promotional stuff reflects that really obviously, in a way that makes it confusing when they show it now lol. I mean, it's obvious that's where the story is going (I wonder if they changed it not only for Quaritch reasons but also for spiri related reasons?), but it does make those fifteen years confusing!

Like why the fuck would Comic Neytiri as we saw her have done that? A song cord is so special and personal, and he represented something so painful and traumatic to her. Every time she sang her song cord he'd be there, if she still felt uncomfortable with him, which she clearly does, then fucking why? The continuity of the story is a little messed up by this kind of stuff, I think.

But on a more fun note: I love the headcanon of Neytiri having been pretty chill with Spider sometimes growing up. Like, they were never super close like the kids and Spider and Jake, but they respected each other at a distance. It was more of a silent understanding. She carved him his first knife when she spotted him trying to make one and left it in his bag when he was least expecting it, and refused to acknowledge she had done it. Sometimes when she was teaching one of the kids something and noticed him watching from afar, she'd shift her posture slightly so he could see. It was never acknowledgments or inviting him over to join, but little allowances. I like to imagine all of that careful balance, maybe even a slowly growing relationship, was blown to hell when the humans returned. That that was what really threw Neytiri back into an absolute trauma panic mode, and when she really started to not even being able to look at him.

Anyways, Spider and Neytiri's storylines are deeply intertwined!!!

Wait a damn minute

Wait a damn--

Is this real??? I knew that Jake's songcord had something for Spider (and Grace's labcoat button) but Neytiri's??? How did I not see this?

Also like why does no one have Tuk on their songcord 😭 my poor baby

[sunandsstars]

i never said he killed them but it is completely capable and he WAS going to. let’s not forget who quaritch is and what he represents. burning villages and killing an innocent ilu (which quaritch ORDERED lyle to do) was still wrong. spider KNOWS the type of person he is. and again, just because someone treated you right doesn’t mean they are worth saving when they are a danger to everyone else and you’ve seen that first hand. being his father didn’t change anything. quaritch showed no change in his agenda or and proved that once again when he threatened the sullys.

and the navi and neytiri not liking humans and understandable, including spider even though he didn’t do anything. they don’t trust humans and spider is no exception. mistreating or blaming him for what the humans did is completely wrong tho. and what else was neytiri supposed to do in that situation? quaritch had complete control over that situation and literally had kiri’s life in his hands. spider has been through a lot and didn’t deserve any of it, but that doesn’t mean he should be absolved of any hate when he made a very bad and thoughtless decision. you can understand his character and still dislike him.

i think you’re forgetting that Spider is a 16 year old orphaned kid🤷🏻‍♀️ and completely disregarding my point when i’m saying he’s had experiences with his real father and saw him in a different light than what he was told in story’s. obviously he knows he’s a bad guy, everyone does, but as a child who’s never met his real parents he may just be desperate to see the good and to bond with someone who can show him an ounce of affection.

If spider wanted to leave quaritch there he could, in the movie he was going to, but saw he was alive. Even if he is a bad guy he’s Spiders father, it would be horrible to just leave him there to die when he was obviously still alive, can you imagine just leaving your parent there to suffocate? that’s cruel. And anyway, everyone’s different, some would save Quaritch some wouldn’t in the situation.

“he WAS going to” key word is was. he never did in the end because he was influenced by Soider, he could have easily disregarded the boy and shot them all down anyways, but he didn’t.

Neytiri is a smart warrior, the ship is large and sinking, there are so many other angles that she could have killed quaritch with any of the hundreds of weapons laying around and took him by surprise. It was by chance and choice she came upon Spider, the fact that she was going to kill him was wrong too, he’s a child. I understand her pain, she lost her son, but it’s unfair to kill another innocent kid. And if she did kill Spider Quaritch would have done the same to Kiri easily.

I made it clear people can hate him, and i said i did too at first. But you need to see his point of view on things, this hate that spiders getting is all stemming for what? no reason? loads of people hate the kid just because they want to, not because there’s a solid reason for it. “but he saved Quaritch” is that the ONLY argument people can come up with? i want to see everyone else’s reasons for hating him, anything other than the fact that Spider saved his dad.